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STEVEHOUSE
Why so serious?
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Member Since: 2/2008Last Seen: 7/08/2009
Member Since: 2/2008Last Seen: 7/08/2009
32 Comments
PrintNewsviners' Opinion: A letter to MSNBC
News Type: Event — Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:00 PM EDT
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Last night's Democratic debate has been viewed by many as one of the worst, if not the worst, debates in recent memory. One of the phrases getting thrown around the most is "Tabloid-Journalism." We here at Newsvine feel that someone has to call ABC out very publicly for this mess, lest it should happen again. What better way to do this, to really push the importance of it, than to quote those of us who watched and have something to say about it? It seems to be a really definitive way to say "Look, the voters are seriously upset with the 'debate' that happened!" So here are some quotes taken from around Newsvine, and some quotes that were offered up to become part of this statement.
"How thoroughly ABC has shirked its responsibility to its viewers and to the voters of Pennsylvania. In a news cycle that more and more consists of 30 second sound bites and buzz-word laden catch phrases, Americans turn to debates as a political reprieve and a chance to see the candidates engage on issues deeper and more substantial than the paltry one-liners and gotchas that festoon the campaign trail. ABC's dereliction of its duty to enable this discourse is shameful: willingly and knowingly encouraging the worst from candidates that --for all their flaws --seemed genuinely interested in moving beyond the shallow political rivalry that has characterized much of this race." -Killfile (created below)
"I was completely appalled at the level of questions asked at last night's Democratic debate. Are these really issues that the American voter is thinking about when he or she enters the voting booth? Are they picking the next President based on flag pins or imaginary snipers? I would be more concerned with paying for gas, with job security, with affording health care. Apparently ABC disagrees with me, or at least their agenda does. You're not informing the public. You're keeping the public uninformed." -SteveHouse (created here, no link)
"I've watched the ABC evening news for years... faithfully. I'll watch it tonight to see what Charlie and George have to say for themselves. But this will be my last time. I was not happy at all with this debate, if you even want to call it that... hell, I think the National Enquirer could have done a better job. The lapel pin? Are you friggin kiddin' me?! I have the power here... the power of the TV remote. See ya Charlie... I hope you have a good day." -Jim Dent (from here)
"Time is drawing near and the 2008 Election is going to make history, I expected more from ABC and the commentators during this debate. The American people want to be informed, so they can make intelligent choices on election day. The direction of our country depends on the next leader, giving us fluff and sound bytes is not going to allow us to accurately determine who will be the better choice to lead this country." -RebelGirl (created below)
"The moderators of a good debate should focus on ideas, not attempt to create a fight between the candidates. We know that these two do not want to get deep into the trenches, for the good of later uniting the Democratic party. It is not the job of the media to sabotage that for the sake of sensationalism, it leads one to believe that they are indeed partisan....Network news organizations should report the news, not try to make it. However, congratulations, you broke that rule and succeed! The poor handling of this debate by ABC seems to be the top story! Howard K Smith, Harry Reasoner, Frank Reynolds and Max Robinson must certainly be proud of you for carrying out the ABC News tradition!" -Roy Batty (created below)
"This is an important time in the history of our nation, with some of the most important issues ever. We are facing a serious recession which may ultimately threaten social security, even as the Iraq War continues forward with 4000 of our soldiers dead, and god knows how many dead Iraqi's. For the first time in our nations history, we have legitimized torture and many feel that the Constitution has been marginalized. And you choose to talk about the pins a candidate chooses to wear upon his lapel, or not to wear. The truth is, I don't really mind some gotcha questions. What I mind is the fact that some of the most important issues ever faced by our country were hardly even mentioned. This is unacceptable. The last debate represents a new low. I no longer watch ABC News." -Smiling Jack (created below)
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{"commentId":1703718,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
Thanks again in advance for anything you may add. Also feel free to suggest we don't include a given quote, for whatever reason, and to edit the letter part or to suggest a comment somewhere.
{"commentId":1703718,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
- 6 votes
#1 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:02 PM EDT{"commentId":1704943,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
This was one of the worst corporate media manipulations by their corporate, ideological class elites, which began early in the process, when the two canididates were anointed the best political hacks, Obama and Hillary to appease Amerikan Empire, to the exclusion of anti war voices, and their canididates. The process of manipulation, corruption, deformation, ideological class thuggery, began by marginalizing Kucinich, who had most often promoted the very policies which the public demanded.
Of course the corrupt ideological hacks, corporate media shills, the Tim Russerts, and Wolf Blitzers, immediately filtered the whole debate and process through the appeasing mechanism, of "electability", ideological mechanism, and hierarchy, that mimics the same class process where middle class deformed professionals, servile and thuggish agents, against popular and social agendas, filter out democracy for corporate, class and imperial interests through its political hierarchy, of both class parties, act as joint partners as shock troops for imperial Empire.
However, here on Newsvine, people were so entrenched in the same class, ideological outlooks, that narrowed real choices for two phony class choices, that no one cared that Kucinich, Edwards and others, the whole of the anti war movement, was effectively marginalized. Endless insipid, superficial arguments between two corporate democrats allowed the corporate press, to carry this class manipulation, regression even further, and now have aimed their sights against Obama. They really do want clones, two imperial canididates, pro Zionist apologists, occupiers, aggressors, and appeasers for Amerikan fascist foreign policies, that you are now seeing the logical outcome, devolution, into a rabid corporate warmongering Press, that is ready to set their sights on war with Iran, with Hillary and McCain as possible partners participating in this fascism.
The Obama liberals are only to blame themselves for failing to stand up to principle, and when NBC, and our masters, MSNBC disinvited Kucinich, for the debate, the two corporate candidates did not have the moral principle to refuse to debate, so long as other candidates are excluded, marginalized, and ideologically polluted with the asinine questions. Now this same regressive process is focused on Obama. Obama has made some progressive statements, but he like all illiberal liberals, class liberals, has had a history of fence sitting, even appeasing class thuggery, that undermines his own credibility, let alone the ideological thuggery of the corporate press.
Democracy Now, and the alternative press has often pointed out that Obama has voted for the fascist Patriot Act, refused impeachment, failed to stand up for the Constitution, and voted for really regressive Republican bills, that make you wonder about his ability think consistently, morally on issues regarding principles. He has groveled like Hillary for Israeli Zionists racists, fascists, occupiers, and made illegal threats against both Iran, and Pakistan, including endless occupation in Afghanistan, that fuels the fires against foreign occupation as it does Iraq.
Here is an example of his failure to apply consistent left principles to foreign policies, where he appeases Bush's father, and his foreign policies, that were just as fascist as Ronald Reagans policies in the Middle East. Amy Goodman on Democracy now talks to Nader's vice president, who comments on this level of groveling, both to Amerikan Empire and Israel fascism, corporate intersts, that translate into imperial interests. Here is the exchange:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/4/17/naders_running_mate_matt_gonzalez_on
It is far superior to the corrupot democratic hacks, and its Corporate Media thugs in Western Journalism, one has to ask why we keep narrowing our shallow choices, false choices, to both appeasers, and ideological thugs in the Corporate press. Time to break through this class rot, imperial mentality, appeasing liberal link to Class thugs, and vote for an ideology that breaks from both class parties, against corporate, imperial Empire.
Down with Hillary and McCain.....Obama better improve over time, or Nader will take enough votes from this corrupt democratic party, until conservatives and liberal become irrelevant.
{"commentId":1704943,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1704982,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Even now that ABC, itself, has revealed the criminality of its own class elites, who they cheered into the illgeal Iraq war, that shows most of the Cabinet, in the White House, and the admission of Bush, himself, that he used illegal torture, is now absolutely imperative that the Democratic hacks, appeasing class shills, start immediately impeachment, base on the facts and admission of crimes.
{"commentId":1704982,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1703849,"authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
How about can we just start over from scratch???? anonymous voter
{"commentId":1703849,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
- 3 votes
#2 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:29 PM EDT{"commentId":1703887,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1703920,"authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
LOL... Sorry Steve, I just thought we could start over with the whole debate, I agree it was awful. I am working and did a quick quip... sorry it wasn't more explanatory... you can disregard.
{"commentId":1703920,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1703931,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1703956,"authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
LOL.. sorry I am blonde and sometimes my mind doesn't work so good... lol.
{"commentId":1703956,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1704193,"authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
Time is drawing near and the 2008 Election is going to make history, I expected more from ABC and the commentators during this debate. The American people want to be informed, so they can make intelligent choices on election day. The direction of our country depends on the next leader, giving us fluff and sound bytes is not going to allow us to accurately determine who will be the better choice to lead this country.
Steve... Hope this is better... its been one of those days... Mel
{"commentId":1704193,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"RebelGirl"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1704203,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1703986,"authorDomain":"killfile"}
How thoroughly ABC has shirked its responsibility to its viewers and to the voters of Pennsylvania. In a news cycle that more and more consists of 30 second sound bites and buzz-word laden catch phrases Americans turn to debates as a political reprieve and a chance to see the candidates engage on issues deeper and more substantial than the paltry one-liners and gotchas that festoon the campaign trail. ABCs dereliction of its duty to enable this discourse is shameful: willingly and knowingly encouraging the worst from candidates that - for all their flaws - seemed genuinely interested in moving beyond the shallow political rivalry that has characterized much of this race.
{"commentId":1703986,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"killfile"}
- 6 votes
#3 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:55 PM EDT{"commentId":1704031,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704083,"authorDomain":"killfile"}
That's fine. Kindly put a comma after "catch phrases" and if you notice any other errors feel free to fix them.
{"commentId":1704083,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"killfile"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1704108,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704009,"authorDomain":"jimdent"}
Here's the cut and paste of my previous comment. Feel free to use it...
I've watched the ABC evening news for years... faithfully. I'll watch it tonight to see what Charlie and George have to say for themselves. But this will be my last time. I was not happy at all with this debate, if you even want to call it that... hell, I think the National Enquirer could have done a better job. The lapel pin? Are you friggin kiddin' me?! I have the power here... the power of the TV remote. See ya Charlie... I hope you have a good day.
{"commentId":1704009,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"jimdent"}
- 6 votes
#4 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:58 PM EDT{"commentId":1704032,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704199,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
I've watched the ABC Evening News since I was a little kid. Peter Jennings was the evening news for me. It's very sad to see how far this once great news organization has fallen.
{"commentId":1704199,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1707145,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
It has been a dreadfully sad process seeing the great ones disappear from giving voice to the people. The heartbreak is worsened by hacks and bimbettes as replacements.
{"commentId":1707145,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1704085,"authorDomain":"roybatty"}
A good debate should lead with serious issues facing our country. Campaign gaffes do not fall into this category.
The moderators of a good debate should focus on ideas, not attempt to create a fight between the candidates. We know that these two do not want to get deep into the trenches, for the good of later uniting the Democratic party. It is not the job of the media to sabotage that for the sake of sensationalism, it leads one to believe that they are indeed partisan.
In a good debate, debaters are questioned and given response time equally. This did not happen.
A good debate demands "limited commercial interruptions." This one featured frequent commercial interruptions. The future of this country is worth a lot more than selling erectile dysfunction pills. Other network debates respected this, but I guess money was not their god.
Network news organizations should report the news, not try to make it. However, congratulations, you broke that rule and succeed! The poor handling of this debate by ABC seems to be the top story! Howard K Smith, Harry Reasoner, Frank Reynolds and Max Robinson must certainly be proud of you for carrying out the ABC News tradition!
Finally, the debate should be broadcast live throughout the country. On the west coast, we had to wait 3 hours for the replay, and we were further insulted when the "live" graphic kept popping up in the upper left corner. It seems your agenda of insulting the live audience with your "production" includes alienating the rest of the country.
I don't understand how a once-competent news organization like ABC has drifted from fair reporting to biased Machiavellian sensationalistic pandering to ratings, but over time it has. And this "debate" demonstrates how low they have fallen.
{"commentId":1704085,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"roybatty"}
- 5 votes
#5 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:13 PM EDT{"commentId":1704110,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704177,"authorDomain":"roybatty"}
Feel free to use anything but Commercial interruptions, report/making news and broadcast time are the only issues I did not see covered otherwise; the rest is pretty well there. Feel free to use you own judgement what to use, if anything. I'm just happy to contribute!
{"commentId":1704177,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"roybatty"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1704196,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704271,"authorDomain":"roybatty"}
Sweet! Thanks.
{"commentId":1704271,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"roybatty"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1704501,"authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
My contribution to your letter would be, if you'd like to use it:
"This is an important time in the history of our nation, with some of the important issues ever. We are facing a serious recession which may ultimately threaten social security, even as the Iraq War continues forward with 4000 of our soldiers dead, and god knows how many dead Iraqi's. For the first time in our nations history, we have legitimized torture and many feel that the Constitution has been marginalized."
"And you choose to talk about the pins a candidate chooses to wear upon his lapel, or not to wear."
"The truth is, I don't really mind some gotcha questions. What I mind is the fact that some of the most important issues ever faced by our country were hardly even mentioned. This is unacceptable. The last debate represents a new low."
"I no longer watch ABC news."
Feel free to edit it a bit.
{"commentId":1704501,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1704544,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1704237,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
In the interest of not waiting until the last second to offer this up, I'm calling the piece finalized and sending Calvin a line, as he asked. Thanks again to everyone who contributed, ranted, or said things that made me think I should try this.
{"commentId":1704237,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
- 5 votes
#6 - Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:46 PM EDT{"commentId":1706355,"authorDomain":"1stcontact"}
Hello Steve:
I see you have a lot of submitted comments already. If you're still looking for more I wrote the following in an article.
We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world and our people do not have access to health care that is affordable and equitable.
We live in a country that is mired in a 5 year war that has nothing to do with 9/11.
We live in a country that is in recession and heading downwards (with no end in sight). People are loosing their jobs, if they've not lost their jobs their incomes have stagnated. Their jobs offer no guarantee of health benefits or retirement benefits. Increasingly employers are only willing to hire part-time help - so people are working 2-3 jobs just to pay the bills.
We live in a country of corporate greed and political corruption.
We live in a country that places more fiscal emphasis on the war machine and corporate give-aways than it does on:
* Education
* Healthcare
* Building a green economy w/green jobs for future generations.We live in a country that is operating off a huge budget deficit - our trade deficit is horrid as well.
These are just a few of the major problems facing us. And in 2 hours of debating last night the first hour was given to playing politics. The moderators of the debate spent one solid hour (1/2 of the debate time) asking absolutely stupid questions about topics we citizens have seen played out over and over and over and over again on the news for the past several weeks.
Beyond that - you may want to check Huff post for a list of major newspapers that gave less than raving reviews to ABC. It might help convince MSNBC that this is a major story and worth being aired on the public airwaves.
{"commentId":1706355,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"1stcontact"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:13 AM EDT{"commentId":1707107,"authorDomain":"bluejohnnyd"}
There was a debate? Hmm, what I get for not paying attention.
The previous 'debates' were enough to make me forswear TV news.
By the way, who won?
{"commentId":1707107,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"bluejohnnyd"}
- 2 votes
#8 - Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:45 AM EDT{"commentId":1707476,"authorDomain":"stevehouse"}
{"commentId":1708990,"authorDomain":"bluejohnnyd"}
Meh, the 'winner' thing was more sarcasm than anything.
And yea, methinks that your writeup would be worth checking out. Thanks for letting me know.
{"commentId":1708990,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"bluejohnnyd"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1707150,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
By the way, who won?
We did!! They went so far even a dim bulb can see the scam!!
{"commentId":1707150,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
- 2 votes
#9 - Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:55 AM EDT{"commentId":1707814,"authorDomain":"lisaed"}
MSNBC for the record - I do not share Steve's opinion. Not all viners think it was wrong of ABC to ask Barack Obama valid questions that are on the minds of many voters. These incidents which Obama's campaign has had to address over the past several weeks indeed needed to be addressed by the candidate himself within the context of this debate. I believe Obama's performance was his weakest ever and hence his supporters are lashing out irrationally at the network and the moderators. I think it's very important to state the obvious here that SteveHouse does not speak for all viners lest all of us be seen as bloggers for Obama.....we are not.
{"commentId":1707814,"threadId":"251675","contentId":"1436950","authorDomain":"lisaed"}
- 1 vote
#10 - Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:14 PM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"251675","isPrivate":false}
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